Ural Discussion Group
Tech Tips

Final Drive Conversion Warning

In March I bought a '94 Tourist demo. One of the conditions of sale was that the bike was to be equipped with the final drive conversion kit. I waited almost a month for the gears, losing that much warranty. When the gears arrived, Ural of America said that installing the gears WOULD VOID MY WARRANTY due to a 3rd gear lubrication problem on '94-'95 models. So I have stored the gears until next year. What upsets me is that there was no up-front warning about this. The dealer was surprised that a product would be sold by a company that voids it's own warranty. I would be more understanding if the item had been offered as :$295 except for 94-95 models, which also require a $150 (or whatever) 3rd gear shaft to prevent damage to 3rd gear.

But the reason I decided to share it here is that I am sure this item is being sold to many other 94-95 owners. They just don't have the unusual circumstance of still being under factory warranty. Is any warning given to them? Or since they are on their own is it not important? I remember seeing on the old chat group a message that said filling the transmission to the top of the fill hole (instead of the dipstick level) fixed the 3rd gear problem.

Don't get me wrong, I love my bike. I was told exactly what to expect from it re: speed, performance, dripping, etc. by the dealer and this very nice web page. It is EXACTLY as presented and I would recommend this bike to anyone who wants to have a lot of fun. But I am upset to NOT end up with what I wanted on the gearing due to information that was not made available until after the sale.

I am not looking per se for more speed, but to reduce RPM on the engine. There is no way to get to my house without travelling on a 4 lane road for 5 miles at a minimum of 55 mph. My objective was to make sure this daily stretch (x2) was not over-revving the engine. To travel slower on this part of the road is to invite a rear end collision. Once off this road I can take my time anywhere I want to go.

I am interested in comments from other Ural owners on this, especially anyone who has purchased the FDCK or is interested in the FDCK.

Thanks.

Thanks for the information. I was waiting to hear of experiences with the final drive conversion. I recently picked up a low mileage 95 Tourist and had been considering a final drive conversion for the same reasons that you cite. However do in large part to comments received from "Mr.Moto" about problems with third gear in earlier bikes I decided to get some experience before converting. I will say that third gear does whine!
As far as the ability to go 55, I bought my Ural in Spokane about 4 weeks ago and road it here to Port Townsend, a distance of about 300 miles(over 500 km). Most of the way I travelled between 50 and 55 mph and the bike seemed to handle it just fine. At this point I am not sure that I would regear unless I had the transmission out for some other reason

I have also had the bike to 55 with no problem. I wouldn't want to run it much faster under any circumstances as I'm not sure how confident I am of my ability to handle sudden maneuvers at those speeds as well as how rapid the steering gets at higher speeds.

I am concerned about long time affect on the engine of those speeds. I used to have a '66 VW bus, which in a way is similar - a flat air cooled engine geared low. Unlike the beetles, if you ran the busses flat out all day, you could burn them up. I knew this and babied mine, but when you own something unusual you make contacts and I heard many stories about people blowing the busses up. Eventually they put governors on them to prevent this.

I also know that at too low an RPM you can overheat the engine. But it sounds too busy to me at 55. It may just be my gut feel, but I remember that this was basically designed in 1939 and recall that most engines of that era were not designed for high rpm for long periods of time.

I recall on the old board that along with the 3rd gear problem, it was posted that if you overfilled the trans. to the fill hole that the gear would then get enough lubrication to pretty much take care of the problem. Since I have stored the gears in the packaging, I have almost a year to watch this board for feedback from others who have tried this. I have found out that locally, overfilling the tranny is pretty much the norm due to gear problems on early models, according to the local mechanics.

Warren, RSTAR96@aol.com

I tried the excess lubricant route on my '95 tourist for about 18 months and determined that the only real effect was excess wear and tear on seals and resultant leaks. I did get the OUTRAGEOUS shrieks and squeals from my tranny during hot weather runs in Florida in late '95 and early '96 but, after opening up and re checking the transmission for poor shifting and using a good anti friction additive in the tranny (this is BEFORE Ural additives), the problem seems to have "gone away" and I am able to run about 60-65 without trouble (but usually run at 55 or so) with a resumption of regular lubricant regime with additives. I am not sure that I/we (the dealer) didn't inadvertently DO something in the way of relieving tightness during the overhaul but there has been nary a squeal in the last 15,000 miles or so and NO leaks of note nor any transmission readjustments either.

What additives are you using? I had thought about this, but Slick 50 transmission additive was implicated on another web site in some lubrication failure in transmissions due to particulate matter (the teflon) blocking the oil grooves cut into the transmission shaft. After a differential failure in my VW with Slick 50 in the trans I tend to believe this, nothing obvious was found.

I want to consider additives after my warranty expires, so let me know what worked for you.

Thanks.

chev. had the same problem late 80 's with rear ends they make an additive that will work in your trans &rear drive you buy it at the dealership. also use yamabond instead of indianhead shellac works much better , buy this at yamaha dealer.

Warren, RSTAR96@aol.com

I used Slick 50 as well as the Discount Auto Parts proprietary brand of premixed teflon stuff at various times. From my recollections, the Ural tranny is pretty basic and uses mostly a splash system of lubrication, therein lies the problem, too much heat and speed tend to prevent replenishment of lubricant on the shafts and a resultant dry shaft squeal occurs. My squeals went away for reasons unknown.

Thanks for the info. I guess for now I'll consider the Ural additive as it SHOULDN'T void my warranty, I would think. I may then try the teflon route next year after the warranty is gone. I'm not having much noise that I would consider unusual from the tranny. The oddest noise is heard over the intercoms we bought on deceleration - a kind of jingling sound. Apparently something in the sound crosses into human vocal frequencies and triggers the mikes. I can't hear the sound without the intercom. Odd.

Hello All,
I'm new the the chat room and to URAL's. I just purchased a
96 Solo and was wondering if this is a problem for the 96-97
model years as well.

All responses are appreciated.

Dear Dionisio-

The key to final drive compatibility is whether or not you have a Type I gearbox. To identify the box, pull the oil filler plug...If it does not have a dipstick, it is a Type I, and the final drive conversion is NOT recommended.

If you have a dipstick, then you have a Type II box, and the final drive conversion will work fine.

Keep those gears lubricated,

URAL Tech Dep't

Dionisio In case no one told you the solo's already have the high or 3.89 gears already in them.I have three customer's with '95 solo's and have had no troubles with there transmissions. Keep it filled with the proper grade oil and change it often and you should have no problems.
Gus.

When was the switch from type 1 to type 2 Gear boxes? I have a '97 tourist & it has no dipstick on the tranny fill plug so I guess it' a type 1. I suppose it's not really a problem because I like the lower gearing. Every thing is pretty flat here on the Island.

Keep the shiny side & the revs. up!
Paul (The Tatar)

Dear Paul-

The type I/type II change is a running one. It all depends on what model and when the bike was built. As far as durability goes, a Type I box carefully tended will provide years of faithful service.

Keep notching those cogs,

Ural Tech Dep't

Dear Vance-

First off, we're glad to hear you enjoy your rig so much...Makes us proud!

As far as your final drive conversion goes...

Bringing the URAL over to the US is truly a work-in-process. Through the experiences of intrepid owners like Warren and yourself, we all learn more about these unique machines every day. We take what we learn, like the 3rd gear issue, and roll improvements into the ones being built today - without compromising the machine's basic character. We're sorry there was a misunderstanding regarding this, and have the following information to offer:

The original Tourists were DOT certified to 59 MPH based on a braking distance limitation - NOT an engine limitation. The newer Tourists have passed a 65 MPH certification with no problem.

The engine is not a 1939 design, rather it is an adaptation of the BMW R 60/2 made from 1955-1967. It has an oversquare bore/stroke relationship, which translates into low ring speeds and subsequent high durability at sustained RPM's.

We have many owners who cruise their Tourists at 55-60 MPH for extended periods, and have heard of a brave soul who has seen 75 MPH! No, we don't advise this sort of speed, but it does give you a reference point.

Sincerely,

URAL Tech Dep't

Thanks for the response on the FDCK. It looks like I have several options to follow:

Can the brake pads from the later models be installed on my '94 to improve the brakes? Regardless of whether the FDCK is installed the extra safety offered would be good peace of mind.

Is it possible to buy a corrected 3rd gear shaft for my trans. so that the FDCK will work? What is the likelihood of failure if I have the FDCK installed next year and use the overfill route?

Like I said, I'm not after speed per se, it just seems like it would be easier on the engine during those periods when I would have to go faster. I am NOT interested in interstate cruising; if you check with highway statistics, you will find that the interstate that passes here (I-81) is one of the most overcrowded truck lanes on the East coast and is to be widened to 6 lanes over the next few years. I don't feel like challenging convoys of Macks on ANY motorcycle and will select more sedate routes.

In all honesty, I don't know where the communication fell apart. The local dealer has been very helpful before and after the purchase, even through the Customs raid (I was there at the time) and subsequent events. But he carries many brands and may have dropped the ball.

He has also mentioned the dual exhaust option. The back roads here are somewhat mountainous (I am 7 miles from the West Virginia border). Would dual exhausts help the tourist cope with these hills better? In a posting from Ural Intl. I was offered a refund for my gears (which I still have in the box). Would the dual exhaust be a better upgrade?

I guess the main thing that has worried me is that at times I will HAVE to do 60 for a couple miles. I don't want to damage the long term life of the engine, and like someone else says, "It sounds like it will blow apart".

I did not mean any disparagement about the 1939 comment; I knew this was when the original bikes had been copied.

Thanks in advance for your help. I know I'm not in the mainstream of things with this choice of vehicle, but that's not new. A local machinist calls me 'The Patron Saint of Lost Vehicles' due to the obscure machines I have chosen. But I keep my cars for 10 to 15 years, I don't see why this should be different. And hey, it won't look much older in 20 years!

Dear Vance-

To answer your questions:

1. Their isn't any real difference between the brakes on your rig and the current brakes - For additional peace of mind, make sure your front shoes are both contacting the drum properly...We'll give you a neat procedure for this in a later post. Also, check your rear brake for oil contamination - This will increase your stopping distance. If it's contaminated, go ahead and replace it.

2. The 3rd gear issue is a tough one. We know from experience that the unit will fail if run in 3rd gear for extended periods. Therefore, we can't recommend the FDCK option in Conjunction with a Type I trans for sidecar use...Sorry!

3. As for dual exhaust...

Without getting into a lot of techie detail, the single exhaust provides better throttle response at low to midrange speeds, where the dual exhaust should provide more power at high RPM. We haven't noticed any real difference, other than it's easier to service the oil filter! We do, however, like the way it looks...

Good luck on your surgery...Trust you will be URAL-ing in no time!

URAL Tech Dep't

Vance;

please accept URAL America's apologies for misleading information. We did communicate to our dealers that installation of the 3.89 f/d gearing is not authorized on early models and will void the warranty. But when the kit is purchased, we usually do not know which motorcycle (model year) will it be installed upon, so we have to rely on our dealers making a right decision. Please mail us back the conversion kit you purchased along with a receipt, and we will send you a full refund. If you Didn't save your receipt - we'll refund you the MSRP on the kit.

URAL Parts Dept.

Thanks for the info. I am checking all the possibilities with the tech department.

I also believe the local dealer will refund me the money; I don't have a separate receipt as the gear upgrade was listed as an installed item on the bill of sale of the bike. But he refunded me the labor since they didn't install them and the $$ amount for the gears is listed separately.

I will be offline for a bit as I'm having surgery tomorrow; obviously the Ural won't be travelling for a while either!

Thanks again!